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Monday, January 26, 2009

part 3 end times thoughts

more from my "too long" but i really couldn't make it any shorter stuff

Old Testament “Rising” The “rising” of the old testament saints happens following a time of great trouble Isaiah 26:16-21
Isa 26:16
O LORD, they sought You in distress; They could only whisper a prayer, Your chastening was upon them. Isa 26:17 As the pregnant woman approaches {the time} to give birth, She writhes {and} cries out in her labor pains, Thus were we before You, O LORD. Isa 26:18 We were pregnant, we writhed {in labor,} We gave birth, as it seems, {only} to wind. We could not accomplish deliverance for the earth, Nor were inhabitants of the world born. Isa 26:19 Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew {is as} the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits. Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter into your rooms And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while Until indignation runs {its} course. Isa 26:21 For behold, the LORD is about to come out from His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; And the earth will reveal her bloodshed And will no longer cover her slain
Daniel 12:1-3Dan 12:1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands {guard} over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. Dan 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace {and} everlasting contempt. Dan 12:3 "Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 1Cr 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, 1Cr 15:24 then {comes} the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
So Christ comes back, and all those who are His are raised, and then the end comes.
Revelation 4:1
Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door {standing} open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like {the sound} of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things."
This verse doesn’t have anything to do with the rapture. Since when does John, one apostle in a vision represent the entire church? Also in Revelation 4:1 John is beckoned to come up, Jesus does not come down, so the imagery is all wrong. But , some say, since the word “ekklesia” is not seen anymore in Revelation after this that means that the “church” ekklesia, must be gone. But ekklesia is not seen in heaven either after this so the fact that that word is missing doesn’t prove anything. It is also missing from 2nd Timothy, Titus, 2nd Peter, and 1 John and 2 John, and Jude. But the words “saints” “the servants of our God” the redeemed” “ those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” “my people” and , those who “follow the Lamb wherever He goes” are used. All of these terms occur later in Revelation, all of these terms and phrases are words that are applicable to the church.
The “elect”, the “saints” and the “church” are one and the same entity! The word church is defined as the gathering together of the elect which is also defined as the saints! Here ‘elect’ is used regarding the church. Col. 1:2 - 3:12 - 4:15 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.
As Paul wrote this letter to the church of Colosse, he called them saints, and the elect of God!
Thayer's Greek Definitions
“elect” G1588 eklektos
1) picked out, chosen
1a) chosen by God
1a1) to obtain salvation through Christ
1a1a) Christians are called “chosen or elect” of God

Revelation 5:8
Rev 5:8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
Here the Pre-trib argument is that the 24 elders are representative of the church already in heaven praising God. But they sing a song in the third person speaking of what God has done for “them”
Rev 5:9 And they *sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood {men} from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. Rev 5:10 have made them {to be} a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."
Not “us” as you would expect if the “church” was singing about the church, but “them” indicating these elders are not the church. Also, since the prayers they are holding are the prayers of the saints, so if they were the church, that would be their own prayers and it wouldn’t be phrased that way.
Revelation 3:10
Rev 3:10 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that {hour} which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth
We need to examine “keep you from” and when we do we find that John uses this same language in John 17:15Jhn 17:15 "I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil {one.}” So “keep you from” is not the idea of a physical removal but a “carrying thru”, a deliverance through trouble. And if this takes the church out of the picture, why have another letter addressed to another church that also has overcomers in it?

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