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Saturday, April 23, 2011

End Times objections

In addition to the "quick and clear" view of the end times.
http://hisrelentlessaffection.blogspot.com/2010/11/end-times.html

I felt to add a "Page 2" that answers common questions, especially from those who thought their view of the end times involved a pre-trib rapture. Those questions and answers are pasted below.

Arguments against this view of the end times answered.

What about “no man knows the day or the hour?"
Refers to the “day of the Lord.” The final day, Daniel 12:11"From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
12"How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!” There is in this precise passage a “mysterious” 45 days at the end. God the Father will pick the final day from these 45 days, so it really is not about “times and seasons, it is about a specific day and hour, that “no one knows.”

What about “this generation shall not pass away before...”
So God is out to stumble pride as its own self-inflicted judgment. The means and measures by which this is accomplished is another conversation, but one thing is clear, God’s selective mode of revelation will always raise problems for natural reason that will defy solution by mere brain power regardless of exegetical skills. It is the humility of repentance that clears the way for the entrance of light (but then again repentance is also the result of revelation as seen in the case of Paul and the future remnant of Israel; Zech 12:10). I make this point because it explains what I think underlies the larger purpose of the Father in Jesus’ use of the term ”generation”. I am suggesting that Jesus well knew the versatility of the language and that it would be a potential source of perplexity.
Jesus well knew the versatility of this term, as evident from his unique and profound use of it in His rebuke of the Pharisees in the preceding chapter. The confrontation with the Pharisees in chapt 23 sets the stage and context for what follows on the same day in the Olivet prophecy. In Mt 23:29-36 Jesus describes a phenomenon that is far too little considered in biblical theology. It is what some have called ‘corporate solidarity.’ Jesus cites the self-assured boast of the Pharisees, “If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets,” as proof that His contemporaries are in the same generational line of those that slew the prophets. It is THIS GENERATION that remains in an unbroken continuum “until YOU shall say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord’” (Mt 23:39). The day of national repentance ends the age enduring opposition of ‘this generation’.
More than an issue of mere bloodline, the concept of generation represents a particular spiritual disposition or nature. So long as this perversity of spirit and God rejection persists in the Jewish nation, so does the exile continue, and so does “this generation” remain; it only ends when ‘all these things’ shall be fulfilled. This is consistent with the use of the term in Moses and the prophets (Deut 32:5, 20 et al), in John Baptist, and it was Stephen’s use of the same essential indictment, if not the precise term, that cost him his life (Acts 7:51-52; cf. also 1Thes 2:16).
Notice the the Lord’s unique use of ‘you’ in His indictment. It is the same in Stephen’s apologetic. It is the generic ‘you’ of corporate solidarity, hence an abiding generation. It is a generation that does not escape judgment, regardless of its particular location in chronological time, ‘UNTIL’ …. This is why Jesus could speak of a future day of public acknowledgment of His messianic dignity, and describes it in terms of the generational ‘until YOU will say.’ It is why He could indict His own contemporaries as present in the killing of the prophets in the very persons of their fathers (“whom you slew”). And it is why Zechariah can speak particularly of the last generation of Jewish survivors of the last tribulation as ‘looking on Him whom THEY have pierced,’ as though they were the actual historical murderers of the Messiah. And they were; because they performed it in the persons of their Jewish forebears. Thus, the surviving remnant of Jacob’s trouble will see themselves as part of an ongoing generation, the generation that has always resisted the Spirit and slain the prophets. This, of course, assumes a powerful revelation, but we believe that such revelation will be amply communicated through the witness of the tribulation church. This witness, though very powerful, will not at first prevail to turn the larger part of the remnant to faith, but it will be the effectual seed that the Lord will quicken at the moment of His appearing, “when the Deliverer comes out of Zion to turn ungodliness from Jacob.” Only then will they ‘look on Me whom they pierced.
Finally, and here I go back to the amazing way that God hides His mysteries. It has always been striking to me that immediately after Jesus says “this generation shall not PASS AWAY till all these things be fulfilled,” He then most significantly adds: “Heaven and earth shall PASS AWAY, but My Word shall never PASS AWAY.” I believe that Jesus well knew and even anticipated how that ‘that’ generation would appear to pass without the fulfillment of “all these things.” I believe it is precisely because He knew that His words would be pointed to by the gainsayer as evidence of the failure of prophecy that He adds the revelatory caveat that sooner would heaven and earth PASS AWAY than one jot or tittle of His word to fail or fall to the ground. Impossible! So by divine design, we are left with a choice of faith, but this need not require a choice between the false alternatives of a spiritualizing preterism or unbelief concerning the Lord’s prophetic accuracy.
Yours in the Beloved,
Reggie Kelly (Reggie answered this better than I ever could, so I just pasted his take on it)

What about “He comes as a thief in the night”
2For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
3While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
5for you are all sons of light and sons of day We are not of night nor of darkness;
6so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
What about “He could come at any moment”
2nd Thes. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy (The abandonment or forsaking of faith or commitment to follow the Lord, often described as a turning away)
comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
What about Rev. 3:10?
10“Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.”
To be “kept" by God is not to be removed but to be preserved through. Like the Hebrews during the Egyptian plagues. Like Paul during his many persecutions and like Jesus specifically warned and prayed for his own disciples...warning --John 16:1"These things I have spoken to you so that you may be kept from stumbling.
2"They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.
3"These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me.”
...prayer---John 17:15"I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from )the evil one.

What about Rev. 4 the 24 elders?
In Rev. 4:1, John does not represent the church. John is about to have an incredible vision, but this one apostle is never given as a symbolic representative of the entire church.
Rev. 4:4 the 24 elders, my best explanation is 12 tribes of Israel and 12 apostles=24. I can’t think of any good reason, why 24 would represent the church.
Twenty Four : 24 - Biblical Numerology Meaning: deals in reference to a heavenly government and a heavenly worship.
What about, “The church isn’t mentioned after Rev. 4“
Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst." Church is a gathering of people where Jesus is the center. The “elect” and the “saints” are mentioned, so if any two of them gather, guess what, that is ‘church.’ Many are saved during the tribulation, so the Holy Spirit and the church, are busy and active during the tribulation.

1 comment:

Anonymous said...

Keep posting stuff like this i really like it